SPEAKER_01 0:48

Okay,

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_01 0:49

we want to welcome you all to our Giving Power to the Business Owner webinar webinar series. And I'm your host, Jacqueline Jackson, a loan broker with TDJ Equity Funding. So we'll use this platform to actually educate businesses on other strategies and insights of you successfully securing funding. So today our topic is on the law side of getting funding. And so today we are joined by Uma Van Zell, the owner of the Oracle Legal Group. Her firm specializes in corporate law, intellectual property, contracts, and healthcare compliance. Uma works closely with business owners to protect and position their companies for growth. And today she's here to share her insights on how legal strategies connect to funding and long-term business success. We want to welcome you, uh Uma, and if you would give us a little bit more about yourself before we continue.

SPEAKER_02 1:51

Sure, sure. Well, you know my name, you know where I work. I started the firm about 10 years ago, and uh the focus of our firm is really to be that one place that businesses can come to, and they get very personalized service. And we try to hit all those target areas that businesses typically need. Um, and really we love working with them and we we love watching them grow and scale.

SPEAKER_01 2:18

Okay, so that sounds something that's definitely you have a passion for business. You and I have spoken before, and like I said, I realize that's a passion. You really want to help a lot of business be successful, and that's why we all as a team we voted to have you in uh because we felt that you could really bring some insights to helping us with not just our clientele, but a lot of people out there now. And as you know, we talked about it, they're trying to start their own business on their own, they're trying to get things set up. And one thing we've realized is that a lot of times they don't know how they should be set up properly, or some things they may run into when they try to get funding. So that's why we wanted you to be on today. And again, thank you so much for being here. So we want to start off if we could. Let's start the foundation.

Why Entity Choice Matters For Funding

SPEAKER_01 3:07

When it comes to business owners thinking about funding or even getting set up, there are legal structures that we kind of see a lot of, you know, the LLC, the S Corp, and C Corp. But if you would, would you uh actually give us some idea of deciding between all three and how they kind of work, if you would, for us?

SPEAKER_02 3:27

Sure. I mean, I think one thing um that is important, and I think lenders and investors want to see is that clear separation between yourself and the business. And that's why we have these entities. It also shields and protects you from a liability standpoint. So the three that we see the most of are LCs, C Corps, and S Corps. Um, I can tell you we um work with a lot of uh limited liability companies. Um, it tends to be a very flexible structure. Um, it's easy to make changes. Um, you're able to have you know managers that make the decisions. There's a lot of flexibility in that structure without all of that corporate formality. Um, the C corp, on the other hand, is a bit more formal, but it is also a very beneficial structure because essentially a lot of times these big investors, if they if they're looking to invest in your company, they might prefer that C Corp. So whether you're choosing one entity or the other depends on your specific business. But what I can say is that you want to pick them over a sole proprietorship because that does not demonstrate um really a separation between you and the business. Also, it doesn't protect you in case there is a lawsuit or another problem.

SPEAKER_01 4:48

Exactly. And I'm glad you said that because a lot of business owners decide to come into a business and they kind of just started under maybe a DBA, you know, which is their name, and you know, doing business as it's I'm gonna go down to the court and I'm gonna sign up. But when it comes to us looking for loans, when you do, like you said, sole proprietor, when you do a funding or a loan as a sole proprietor, they have to go on your personal, all personal. You know what I'm saying? So you've now, like you said, you've entwined your personal and your business compared to, like you're saying, the setup of this business's property, it protects you, and that's what's important. That's why we're putting you here. That if they have any questions about that, we definitely want them to reach out to you on that as well. Okay, thank you so much for that. The next one.

SPEAKER_02 5:32

Oh, absolutely. I I hope that they understand how important this and it is so easy. It is not difficult to form these. You can even form them on your own, and ultimately, it's gonna protect you, it's gonna protect your business. You want to keep your bank account separate, you want to make sure your business is your business account, you know, not your personal, you're not mixing the two, uh, because that also can cause problems, such as piercing the corporate veil. So everything you're saying is absolutely correct, Jacqueline. And and I really want to see these startups and these young companies do well.

SPEAKER_01 6:08

Right.

SPEAKER_02 6:08

And this is really step one.

SPEAKER_01 6:10

Okay, great. Exactly. So, what we're gonna do now is go into the next question. Again, we got these questions that come in from our subscribers and a lot of our audience have put them in. So, we want to talk about contracts and agreement. So, on contracts can make or break a deal, especially when it comes to long loans that's involved. What common mistakes do you see business owners make in their contracts that could hurt them later on?

SPEAKER_02 6:36

Well, that is a great question, actually. Um, one thing that uh, you know, we see a lot of is vague or incomplete contracts. So, you know, I know that somebody might have a buddy and they just have a handshake deal or they just have a one-page agreement and they say, Oh, I trust them. Um, and maybe that relationship has worked

Contracts That Lenders Respect

SPEAKER_02 6:55

for you and you've not had a problem. But the issue is that when an investor comes in or a bank looks at that, they're not gonna look very favorably at that one-page agreement. And that's not gonna give them that sense of security, such that they're gonna want to give you, you know, um, money to fund your business. And so I think, and it also doesn't secure your long-term future. I mean, you're looking to scale your business, you're looking to grow it. If you don't have solid contracts in place, then it's gonna be difficult for you to do so.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

Exactly. And and on that note, from the funding side, I want to mention, like you said, if the contracts are not properly set up, like, say for instance, and I know we talked on this too, if you're you're doing a partnership, so that partnership agreement, or you're buying another company from a person or a company, um, and those contracts are not set up, I guess legally, of the word I want to use, for it's like having those type of uh locality terms that they're looking for as a lender. If it's not complete, it's not filled out right, that is a stopping thing. So I don't think people realize that you just can't do, like you said, you and your buddy decide to fill something out, you know. You right so I I can see what you're saying, and that's why it's so important of what you're saying. If you're gonna do some contracts, any type of contracts, have attorney someone to look over them and kind of guide you because it will save you much money, you know, down the line.

SPEAKER_02 8:16

Yes, yes. I think I think you said it perfectly because you're, you know, in the moment you might say, Hey, why do I have to do this or why do I have to spend this money on it? But in the long term, you're actually saving a lot of money and a lot of problems.

SPEAKER_01 8:31

Exactly. So that's what we definitely want everybody to know when it comes to contracts and agreements. The next thing we want to talk about, a lot of people starting business. Some people are coming up with intellectual property within their business, right? Uh, which is fresh ideals. I do want you to explain what intellectual property is and actually how they need to make sure they're covered. So a lot of small businesses don't realize that brand or process may actually be their most valuable asset. How does properly secure and intellectual property make a business more attractive, you think, for lenders or even investors?

SPEAKER_02 9:04

Absolutely. So I think this is incredibly important as well. So when we're talking about intellectual property, we're talking about patents, we're talking about copyrights, we're talking about trademarks, we're talking about trade secrets. Um, and they are protecting your name, your logo, this is protecting your inventions, this is protecting your processes in your company. So this is this is this can cover a number of things in the company. And and having a proper IP protection in place, it changes it from just say a process to something that's actually an asset, an asset that is a transferable asset to a potential lender, or if you're selling your company, they can use it with collateral, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 9:51

They can use it with collateral. You're right.

SPEAKER_02 9:53

That's a that's a great point. That's a great point. So for a lender, they can use it as collateral. So we've just now

Turning IP Into A Bankable Asset

SPEAKER_02 9:59

transformed something that you're using in your company into a very valuable asset. Um, you know, and I guess to provide you like an example, say if you have like a uh like a wearable device, um, you know, that's something that you could potentially patent. And then you can also trade.

SPEAKER_01 10:25

Okay, it seemed like you stopped. Now you did. Yeah, you're yeah, that's okay. Yeah, I kind of went out a little bit. You're okay. You're back in.

SPEAKER_02 10:34

We're okay. Okay. So um, as mentioned, I don't know if you heard about the example I was just mentioning, but you know, you have, you know, you have this wearable device, you've patented, you've now trademarked the name, the logo, and it's now a very valuable asset for your company. And so there's a lot of meaning and value to protecting your IP. Also helps you to identify, hey, what are what is the valuable IP in my company? Makes you sit down and think about that and think about ways that you can protect it. So it's it's important.

SPEAKER_01 11:09

It's important, exactly. And again, definitely seek an attorney for help. We have Uma on our referral page where you guys can reach out to her directly. So you will be able to do that on our website. So we want to go into the due diligence red flags. You know, we kind of talked on that. So when a lender or investor or anyone reviews a company, because you deal with a lot of people that do contracts and help them, right? What are some of the legal red flags do you see that can probably stop it, the deals and dead tracks?

SPEAKER_02 11:40

Got it, got it. Well, I'll say there's a number of items, but I think some of the main items, one we've already talked about, which is those messy in uh you know, contracts and you know, not like complete contracts. Those are obviously one that is definitely a red flag. Second is probably unclear ownership. You haven't outlined who the owners are, what the voting procedures are, all of that is typically you'll find in a shareholder agreement or an operating agreement. Um, and that's an extremely important document that really tells about the governance of the company. Um, and then also not having protected intellectual property. And then I would say probably compliance. You haven't done a great job of making sure you have the proper licenses in place and um you haven't made sure that all of that stuff is in order. And then finally, litigation. So if you have some big litigations that are unresolved, that's probably something that you should uh you have to at least be able to explain how you're

Due Diligence Red Flags To Avoid

SPEAKER_02 12:40

gonna potentially resolve that litigation.

SPEAKER_01 12:42

Exactly. And that and that makes sense. That's what I'm saying. This is things that you need to do before you get in front of the lender. Yes. That basically what you're saying. So, on a little bit to lead into that, I know we talked about the corporation setup. Uh, lenders want to see a strong company, okay? And usually they want to see clean books and clean records, okay? So, how important is corporate governance? Uh, keeping minutes, records, you know, because a lot of us don't think, you know, I do I have to do the records, do I have to do the minutes? So tell us how important is that when it comes to actually getting in for getting excuse me, getting financing?

SPEAKER_02 13:20

Oh, I think it's very important. I don't know, in Jacqueline, your experience, but I, you know, I've definitely seen investors come in and they'll say, look, before we even fund you, you're gonna have to have all of the board resolutions in place. So they have to go backwards and then fix all of their records, um, which would have been much easier had they just had a procedure. Every time we make a major decision, we write a board resolution. Whenever we have a meeting of all the shareholders, we have our minutes. And it's different for corporations, it's different for LLCs. It's important to understand what you have to do. But once you know what to do, it's actually relatively easy to do it. And it's also just a great practice because you don't have disputes uh between partners. You can say, hey, listen, on October 4th, we decided as the company that we're gonna get this loan. And here it's documented in a board resolution. So not only is it useful for when you're getting funding, but it's also super useful internally.

SPEAKER_01 14:20

Right. So that's how that would kind of work to kind of help them done. Let to help them to do that. Let me say this too on this part. You know, we've heard, I guess, uh, what is it, protection of the veil or the veil prediction, uh, where if you're doing those minutes, if you're doing those records and compliance, I've had lenders that private lenders ask for those documentation to see that you are doing that. So I think that's so important. And if you don't know how, because like you can now, and you can attest to this too. We can go online and and and get certain forms made up from different companies. But what we don't have is like what you just said. Now let's talk about what's going to keep you compliance. They don't, they don't, you don't, they don't come with that, and that's why it's important, right? To reach out to you because you're saying the part that we don't get if we go to these companies or certain ones. And I'm I mean, I'm not talking about everybody, I just know what I've seen that come to us. They've missed that part of the education I think that they can get from you as an attorney to guide them. I mean, what's your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_02 15:22

No, I think you're spot on. I think that there's a lot of gaps. So, say if you do go to, you know, the these companies online that provide agreements. Um, first off, these agreements, they're not complete. They're

Governance, Minutes, And Clean Records

SPEAKER_02 15:36

missing things that are specific to your particular situation.

SPEAKER_01 15:39

Custom pieces you need to have.

SPEAKER_02 15:41

Yes, they're missing those custom pieces, and they certainly can't advise you on the overall compliance aspect. They're they're not they're not out there to do that, they're there to provide you um agreements uh without really looking at the specifics. And quite honestly, the devil's in the details.

SPEAKER_01 15:59

Exactly. Wow, how true that is. Okay, so let's go our next one question. This is dealing with regulated industry, okay? So I know you specialize in the healthcare compliance, you know, not and you I know you said it's so much into that, but you do specialize in it. So if people need it, they got you. But for businesses, uh for business owners in a highly regulated industry, because you said that, what additional legal steps should they take before uh actually presenting it to an investor or to a lender? What do you think that should be on that aspect?

SPEAKER_02 16:36

You're saying if they're in a very specific industry like healthcare, where they have some things they need to make sure typical. Go ahead. Well, I think they need to make sure that they're is it is it pausing?

SPEAKER_01 16:52

Yeah, it was. Okay, go ahead. Okay, now go ahead. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 16:56

I think that they absolutely need to make sure that they're doing things that are legally compliant. So sometimes even healthcare companies, they might not realize that um perhaps they're running a foul of anti-kickback and STARK just in their referral relationships with other clinics, um, and they need to make sure that their documentation is also reflecting the compliance aspect. So, you know, if it is a HIPAA compliant company, then you know, making sure that even the agreements are discussing the HIPAA compliance to make sure that the infrastructure is actually HIPAA compliant. So there's a lot more steps when you are in specific industries and it's a lot more complex. It's absolutely a case where you need to have an attorney come and look and make sure, do almost like an internal legal audit to make sure that you're compliant.

SPEAKER_01 17:51

Right. And I want to say that we've actually helped a lot of health cares, but we've had some uh that come through and they have had certain documents drawn up. But when it comes to their compliance, when we ask for certain documents, then they find

Compliance In Regulated Industries

SPEAKER_01 18:04

and we find out that their document may not be the right type that they needed. They should have had additional this or additional that. And that's where I saw when an attorney comes in, and like you said, it's that feel you can give them some compliance for what they need to do, what they need to do in their area because it all is also different by areas, too, by steps.

SPEAKER_02 18:25

Yes, yes, it's a lot, it's a lot, right?

SPEAKER_01 18:29

So industry regulation is really important that if you're getting into that, then you should definitely look at getting an attorney to kind of make sure you set up right. You know, that's something you don't do off your hip. That's just my opinion. Okay, so going to the next one. Let's talk about risk management. Okay, so we're taking on debt means taking on risk. What legal protection, like contracts or policy, do you recommend businesses have in place to minimize maybe their risks?

SPEAKER_02 18:58

Um, that's a great question as well. Um, I would say that there's, you know, there's the external and then there's the internal agreements. So from an internal standpoint, we're talking about having the operating agreement and the board resolutions in place to get that loan and to make sure that you have the authority to get the loan and that you have the votes in place and you have the decision making, what's going to happen when you have a debt. All of these things are internal questions that should be outlined in your operating agreement. If they're not, then that's something that you guys need to come together, talk about, put into a board resolution as well. And then externally, the loan documents it themselves are very important. And one thing I've noticed is that there's there's quite a bit of variety out there. It's not like there's just one set of loan documents, they can vary quite a bit. And the

Managing Risk In Loan Documents

SPEAKER_02 19:52

obligations and the triggers, the default triggers can really vary. So it's super important to review them and to understand them. Uh, I think specifically with an attorney, unless you're very, very experienced in this area, it can be quite tricky.

SPEAKER_01 20:07

Very tricky. I've seen that. So you are so right about that. So again, I emphasize how important it is to have an attorney with that, because we see it at the loan table, at the closing table, where things can't continue because of the localities of the business itself, and you didn't have the proper document you needed to go forward. And and they can't go forward, you know what I'm saying? So it is well worth getting you to review what they have and let's see to make sure your compliance based in the industry you're in. I mean, you think that's something they would they should look at trying to do as well?

SPEAKER_02 20:41

Yes, absolutely. I think it's good to have your ducks in a row. Things go much more smoothly. The chances of you getting a loan increase. Um, it just makes sense to get your ducks in a row before you you you take on debt or you take on investors.

SPEAKER_01 20:56

Exactly. So moving to the next one. Now, this is something we know. Now we deal with a lot of loans, and I know you've seen contracts too, and they always, you know, they can be a little tricky. Uh, but what are the three things a business owner should always look for in the fine print before signing?

The Three Fine-Print Must-Checks

SPEAKER_02 21:16

That is a great question. I think one thing I'll say overall is you need to review the entire contract. So I'll I'll name three that I think are very important, but as a rule, I think it's incredible, incredibly important to review the entire document. As I mentioned, each loan agreement can be very different. Um, I think in my experience, one thing I've noticed that's important and sometimes, and it seems obvious, but somehow people over forget to look at it, is the triggers for default. So, what are the things that are gonna cause the loan to default? It may not be the things that you might think, it might not just be related to payment. Um, so it's really important to understand what those triggers are and to be comfortable with them. And obviously everybody should know what they are.

SPEAKER_01 22:03

Right.

SPEAKER_02 22:03

Um, and then what happens after um, you know, a default is triggered as well. Um, I'd say the second provision, I think that is also incredibly important, and it's probably not just one provision in the document itself, it's the idea of whether the loan itself can affect the freedom you have to do things as a company. So I'll give you an example. So, for example, if you want to take on a new owner, you want to have you know somebody come into the company and take equity, that change of control could actually be limited by what's in the loan agreement. The loan agreement could say, hey, if you're if you're getting a new investor, there's a change of control, you will have to inform us of it and get our permission. Or it could just say you just have to provide us notice of it. But whatever the case is, if it's affecting the way that you're governing and running your company, you should know what that is. Um, so I think that's also very important. And that that might not just be one provision, that could be a few different provisions in the within the agreement. Um, and then finally, of course, you know, personal guarantees, you know, who's taking out these personal guarantees, and um, you know, and that's something you should know when you're getting the loan agreement as well.

SPEAKER_01 23:20

Right. And how would it affect your uh personal um property? You know, is that going to be included in that? Now, let me say this to add to it when you said triggers, you're right. One thing uh when you do usually when you do a line of credit, every year they want to do an audit, and that audit consists of financials. They just want to see if you're stable, or you still do what you have. I've actually had a client that in the midst of everything, right for his year, he had to get a new CPA. Found out the last CPA had messed up a lot of stuff, so it just taking them a minute, and then he called and said, Hey, uh, they're talking about you know, we can't use a line of credit, you know, blah blah blah, because dah dah. I said, Yeah, because in your contract, which you know, we knew I didn't, it wasn't nothing we brought out, but I found out later with everybody that if you do not have those documents, then they have to stop the loan. He didn't read that, uh, yeah,

Bringing In Investors The Right Way

SPEAKER_01 24:15

he didn't know that. So he was don't get me wrong, he was wound up getting his CPA and all that stuff, but it was like a month and a half later that he didn't use the line of credit. So that is true when you say you have to read all that and see how it would affect you because he could have started four months ago getting his CPA if he knew in a year I need to have that, which we mentioned on our letters, but again, he said he didn't read even what we did, so you are so absolutely, and sometimes that loan will stop you from getting a second loan, it'll say, Hey, yes, you can't get that second loan.

SPEAKER_02 24:47

So it is so important to understand all of those terms. It may seem like a standard document, but it is not right, right, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 24:55

Read all of it and what you don't understand, get legal help to make sure you understand what you're reading. Believe me, the money is well ways, is well worth the what you have to go through without doing it. It really is. Okay, wonderful, wonderful. So the next one I have, we're gonna talk about equity versus debt. Okay, now sometimes entrepreneurs bring in investors instead of taking a loan. Okay, we talked about that. But what legal steps should a business owner take to protect themselves and avoid disputes when bringing in, or like you just said, bringing in a partner?

SPEAKER_02 25:30

Bringing in a partner. Well, yes, absolutely. And I think we've kind of talked about this before, but I'm gonna talk about this document again because I think it's one of the critical documents that prevents litigation and prevents disputes. Okay, and that is an operating agreement or shareholder agreement, depending on your equity, your entity type. Now, when it comes to an operating agreement, you have to think of this as the constitution of your company.

SPEAKER_01 25:57

Now that's what the LLCs, right? LLCs.

SPEAKER_02 26:00

That's with LLCs, yes.

SPEAKER_01 26:02

Okay. Yes. All right, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 26:04

It is like the constitution of your company. It it determines uh in this document, you're determining what the decision-making power is, who gets to vote on what, what are the major decisions, what are the minor decisions, and what are the day-to-day decisions and who is making them, and who is part of this voting group that is making these decisions. It describes what happens if a partner dies, it describes what happens if a partner gets divorced, because that is a concern too. Um, it's going to talk about what happens if somebody wants to transfer their ownership. It's going to describe what happens if there's a distribution, how distributions are made. So, really, all the major conflicts you're going to have with your partner are actually addressed in the document. And if you can take the time, talk to an attorney, go through each of these categories right when you've started the company, actually, is really the best time to do it. Then you're going to have

When To Hire An Attorney

SPEAKER_02 27:02

a clear understanding with your partner, and the chances of you having a dispute are going to be much less. If you do have a dispute, a lot of that is going to get resolved by what's in that operating agreement.

SPEAKER_01 27:13

Right, exactly. And and let's emphasize that because again, I want to say it with you is that that is so because that's so important because that is actually one document they definitely ask for. You know, you don't they're not looking for you to explain. A lot of time, I think when people go to the bank, they think, okay, I'm gonna explain this, but you can't explain because a lot of your paper goes before the deciding people before you, and you see, and that's what I think we don't understand. They're gonna look at that operating document, they're gonna look who's all involved and the percentage that they have in the company. So I don't think uh people think that's so serious, they just think, like you say, it's a form, it's just something to fill out, something to have, right? But but it's not, especially you can start off on a hundred thousand, two hundred thousand. But when your company starts growing, and I have seen this, and then they get to the millions. The document years ago was never right in the first place. Now they got to pay off to get it correct because you're expanding, which means you're bringing in a lot of more people that's gonna look at your books and look at your setup and your compliance, and that's where they lose it because they've been pretty much doing it on the hip, you know, pretty much. And now you're at the point where it's the money time, you're not set up, you know, properly how you need to be. I know you have a lot of those coming to you, I guess a little late is what they come to you and try to do some work with that. So that's something you all run in. So give me, if you would, and that we want to talk about um as far as a legal advice. If it was, if you could leave business on one piece of legal advice before they grow their business and start borrowing money, okay? Yes, what would that be?

SPEAKER_02 28:58

Well, I think we've been talking about it the entire time. It's basically get your legal house in order and do it from day one. It it truly is a foundation for your company. It's not only gonna help you to scale and to get investors and to get funding, it's also gonna help you run the company smoothly and it's gonna cause a lot less conflict, it's gonna make your life a lot easier, and frankly, it's much cheaper. It doesn't cost that much to get these governance documents in play, but it costs a lot of money when there's a partnership dispute. A lot, a lot, and it's much harder, much harder to resolve and much harder to deal with. So I think it's just get it in order, don't be scared of it. Sometimes people get uh you know a bit put off by legal. Get the right partner, get the right attorney to work with, and they will step you through the process.

SPEAKER_01 29:49

To the process. Well, we actually had someone that sent something up to us uh that asks you this. It's about the timing, they say, of getting an attorney. So when do you think? A new business should look at having an attorney on board when they first think about business or after they've kind of ran it for a minute. When do you think it's a good time to talk to an attorney?

SPEAKER_02 30:09

I think it's a good time to not talk to an attorney when you have decided that you want to actually move forward with the business, unless you have some questions. If you are still deciding, you can certainly talk to an attorney before that point. But I think when you're you're serious, you're you're saying, hey, it's time, I want to do this. Then I think it's important to talk to an attorney. First off, you're gonna have to form that entity so you want to form the right one. And then from that point on, you want to find an attorney who will really guide you and tell you, hey, this is what's important now. This is something we can wait on.

unknown 30:42

Right.

SPEAKER_02 30:43

Because you might not need all of it from day one, but there are certain things you do need from day one.

SPEAKER_01 30:49

Okay, and that's whether your attorney can come in and kind of help you with that and kind of getting that in. Okay. Well, listen, is it anything else you think our audience should know? You know, we deal with business owners and real estate investors, and so is it anything you can think of that you definitely want them to be aware of as far as their business setup and going forward?

SPEAKER_02 31:10

I mean, I would just say just find the right partners you can

Closing Thoughts And Resources

SPEAKER_02 31:14

work with, whether that's a CPA or an attorney, um, or even your business partner. I think it's all about having the right people in, you know, who are there, who are cheering you on, who are on your side and helping you grow and scale and just have a successful business. I really wish everybody the best in their um in this journey. It's it's an awesome journey, actually, to grow a business. It's a scary journey. It's a scary journey, yes.

SPEAKER_01 31:42

But it it it's a lot less scary if you have the right team with you. So I totally, totally agree. Well, Miss Uma, I thank you so much for being on our show today. It has been a powerful time. Thank you for being here.

SPEAKER_02 31:55

Thank you. Thank you so much, Jacqueline. It's been a pleasure.

SPEAKER_01 31:58

It has. And I want our audience to know that um want to thank her for helping our audience understand the legal strategies and the funding really go hand in hand.

SPEAKER_00 32:14

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